Should new showrunners be brought in?

I'm not sure how long the admins will let this thread exist. But yeah, I firmly think so. This has been the weakest season, by a big margin, in my book. Everyone's got a more compelling storyline than Kara, and we barely get to see Supergirl be "super".

By far, the biggest problem this year was making the primary antagonists "normal" humans. Yes, they are trying to tell an allegory for the hate we are seeing in the real world, right now. And that is admirable. But by making the bad guys normal humans, we have gotten almost zero awesome fight scenes, for Supergirl, this year. We can't have a spectacular fight featuring Supergirl when her antagonists don't stand a chance against her. And the few episodes with real potential that we had were completely botched (Parasite Lost, Elseworlds, Suspicious Minds) The closest is when she fought the alien dragon in the Thanksgiving episode.

And it undermine's the "super" part of Supergirl when she's continuously being saved by people with guns (or a girl with a metal pipe). There is no reason these weapons should be at all effective against someone who is giving Supergirl trouble. It only serves to show Supergirl as weakling who can do nothing without a safety net like Alex, Brainy, Nia, or the DEO.

But the problem is more fundamental than that. It feels like the writers decided "We're tackling an immigration and refugee storyline", and then thought "How can Kara/Supergirl fit in to this story?" That sort of story building is flawed from the start. You're starting point needs to be "What is Kara's/Supergirl's journey, this arc/season? How can she grow? And what story can we build around THAT".

You shouldn't have to worry about finding a way to shoe-horn in a story for your title character.

On that note, this show needs to par down the supporting cast. Right now, we have Alex, J'onn, Brainy, James, Nia, Lena, Lockwood, and Hailey. Not to mention Supergirl, herself, and whatever recurring characters you have, like Manchester, Menagerie, Lex, and a host of others.

This is TOO many characters to juggle and still give Kara/Supergirl the time she deserves as the title character.

So yeah. Replace the showrunners, and bring in some who know how to center a story on the title character. I give everyone the benefit of the doubt, but these showrunners have completely botched this season. I was REALLY critical of season 3's back half, and I'd rather watch that, than this season.

Should they be fired? That's a question for Greg Berlanti. I doubt it would happen. Show makes money, show gets renewed.

Regardless, I would advise a drastic change in direction. My gripes are pretty well documented elsewhere on the site, and I'm honestly a little too heartsick at the moment to delve into them in detail again.

kdogg87, I think that if the only change they made was starting with "What is Kara’s story?" then many problems would be remedied. Great observation on your part.

Sadly but unapologetically, yes.

LibertyPrime: You raise a good point about Greg Berlanti calling the shots. However, shows are driven by ratings and the foundation of a good rating is the fan base. If the fans are not happy, this can be dangerous for good ratings. I don’t know if our Supergirl.TV Administrator will agree with this, as he has direct contact with the production team.

Actually, I liked the Thanksgiving episode with Spike. One of the things I miss is the goofy humor that was part of the early show. I think we all might agree that there have been some good scenes in a lot of episodes and that there have been some good ones.

Again, I’d like to think that the Producers are very sensitive to the fan base and their impact on ratings. I believe as fans, we can apply input, or pressure if you will on the show’s creators.

"But by making the bad guys normal humans, we have gotten almost zero awesome fight scenes, for Supergirl, this year. We can't have a spectacular fight featuring Supergirl when her antagonists don't stand a chance against her."

Or if you are going to make the bad guys normal humans, then at least give them something that they can use to level the playing field. Like maybe a kryptonite or red-sun radiation projector of some sort that will weaken Kara (upon immediate exposure). That way, you could have some good fight scenes involving Supergirl!

The thread is a fair criticism on the showrunners. I softened some language but I’ll let it continue. I am not beholden to them but I have met them a few times in person and they are very sweet people. Ali Adler was incredible as well. That’s all I will say but please continue with care on this topic.

The bad guys are human this time because I believe they write the story to complement a message instead of the reverse

The thread is a fair criticism on the showrunners. I softened some language but I’ll let it continue. I am not beholden to them but I have met them a few times in person and they are very sweet people. Ali Adler was incredible as well. That’s all I will say but please continue with care on this topic.

First off, thank you for leaving this topic open.

I would like to point out that, I don't think anyone is saying the showrunners aren't wonderful people. I think it's great that they want to broach gun control, immigration and refugees, and introduce our first Trans superhero. There are those who say it should be left out of entertainment, but I'm not one of them, because comics, along with comic based TV, has always served as a commentary, and these are important topics, in today's world.

I think the primary issue is the execution. As I said earlier, it feels like they are broaching these topics, then trying to figure out, after the fact, how Kara and Supergirl fit into it. I think Kara's journey and arc need to be established first and foremost, so a story can organically build from that. Then you can build the arcs of the supporting cast, from there. This way, Kara's story and journey is always first and foremost.

As it stands, it rarely feels like Kara has a Journey in this season. Alex has her journey, running the DEO, adapting to Hailey at the DEO, losing her memory, trying to adopt. J'onn has a journey, becoming a P.I. Nia and Brainy have journeys, this season, with Nia accepting her powers, Brainy adapting to the 21st century, and the two's seemingly teased romance. Even Lena and James, with their somewhat minimal screentime, have a journey this season (more so with Lena, pursuing her experiments and dumping James). But Kara? She literally just feels like a supporting character in everyone else's story. Especially Alex's and Nia's. Kara's biggest story this season is "Alex was mind-wiped". Which, again, feels more like an Alex story, than anything.

And if the showrunners had been building a story, organically, working outward with Kara as the focus, that wouldn't be an issue.

My other big issue is that they currently don't seem all that adept at planning the long game, story arc wise, based on the back half of season 3. I want season 4 to prove me wrong, but it just hasn't.

So yeah...while I hold no ill will towards any of the showrunners on a personal level...yes, I believe new showrunners should be brought in. I'd go so far as to say the whole writing room could use an overhaul. We're 12 episodes into the season, with 10 left, and I can honestly say there are only 3 episodes worth rewatching, for me. That's not good, from a guy who would watch season's 1-2 over and over.

LibertyPrime: You raise a good point about Greg Berlanti calling the shots. However, shows are driven by ratings and the foundation of a good rating is the fan base. If the fans are not happy, this can be dangerous for good ratings. I don’t know if our Supergirl.TV Administrator will agree with this, as he has direct contact with the production team.

I agree, but there is a question of how many fans are dissatisfied with the show. It is tempting to see the criticism here and project those to fandom on a larger scale. But we are a self selecting bunch.
I think the group here is well informed, thoughtful, and passionate. More casual viewers may not share our concerns to the degree or to the proportions of this site's membership.

Actually, I liked the Thanksgiving episode with Spike. One of the things I miss is the goofy humor that was part of the early show. I think we all might agree that there have been some good scenes in a lot of episodes and that there have been some good ones.

The Turkey Day episode was one of my favorites this season as well.

Again, I’d like to think that the Producers are very sensitive to the fan base and their impact on ratings. I believe as fans, we can apply input, or pressure if you will on the show’s creators.

How to best to apply that input/pressure is something I have not cracked.

Supergirl.TV Administrator: Thank you for you observation. I hope I never suggested that they the show runners are not sweet people. Both my parents were EPs for a major TV Network and so my comments are based on that background.

The facts are, they may wish to pull in a storyline consultant, like Sterling Gates (of whom I am a great fan). The show is becoming a little stale and there is a consistent concern on this site’s fan base about its quality. Please do not consider it a personal attack.

I truly believe that the show runners need to look at the whole picture and perhaps reconsider their strategy. I also know it’s not easy to produce a weekly segment. But sitting as an armchair critic, it’s easy for me to say that they could have done better. Show runners, please consider this that you are cramming too much material into a single season and that less may be more and better.

First, I think everyone has been respectful and I don't mean to imply that by bringing up this topic they are saying the show runners are bad people.

Second, I'll add my thoughts which I rarely do (I believe that I should be the proprietor of the forum, not participate). Much like the bartender doesn't drink behind the bar.

Before I say, "toss the showrunners" I will note, that is jumping to a solution before defining the problem. Here's what I think the problem is. The show seems to have lost some of it's story to send a message. SO, the first thing I want is the story back. Red daughter kind of feels like comic book nerd bait. We've been waiting for that story to come to a head and it really isn't.

I believe that the power inconsistencies are a symptom of live action television. Sometimes the budget isn't there. If the story arcs could be given a little more attention to what Kara can do to defeat villains in a certain circumstance then I think it would go a long way. Force her not to use her powers through narrative, Example, holding hostages that would be hurt through inaction. Much like how Barry and Oliver knocked over the tower in Elseworlds to get Superman to save the civilians.

Finally back to my original point, how do we get this back? Well we don't but one suggested solution was to toss the show runners. That could be tough since the show is on their third set of show runners already. I know that Sarah Schechter is Greg Berlanti's right hand. I'd like to see her get involved a bit more. She is heads down on Stargirl and Batwoman right now I imagine but Sarah is a powerhouse.

Thank you, Supergirl.TV Administrator. But like the bartender, you are our psychiatrist. You’re comments were well placed. I really like the idea of Sarah getting more involved. I have great respect for her . Sarah, however, and as you pointed out is busier than a one armed paper hanger.

A potential remedy is to providing the show runners with extra help. I think they and we as fans would benefit. Greg Berlanti’s genius is in midwifing these shows, and I can’t believe he has the time to focus on this. I like to think that Supergirl is his top show. Whether or not, rather than tear down the current powers that be, we may suggest ways to improve the for one, would suggest that the show runners pare back the number of plots and focus on just a couple. Include as well, some stand-alone episodes.

I pretty much enjoy all the characters. In a 40 minute plus airplay, limit their numbers. Perhaps it may work to have the support cast appear less often (not every episode) and when they do appear give them some meaningful role and time.

These are just some thoughts, tryouts to be positive. It’s easy to criticize; it’s harder to,provide solutions. Since I created this topic, I thought I’d make the first step.

I wonder if there is a platform where showrunners would actually notice feedback

I think that it's difficult to make an overall judgement on the level of responsibility that the show runners should have when we really don't know what is going on behind the scenes. We don't know how much of their decision-making is influenced by Berlanti or the network itself. I don't watch the Flash, Arrow or any of the other superhero shows on the CW but, I've read about their content on here, on Twitter and I occasionally see things on YouTube, etc. And from what I have informally gathered, those shows are very formulaic in the stories - the expectation for the heroes, the number of heroes, the hero versus villain stories, the relationships, etc. Now, is that a result of being DC, being a Berlanti production or being on the CW? If it's because of Berlanti and the CW, then they could be pressuring the showrunners to add similar things into Supergirl. However, with SG being so powerful, those aspects in Flash and Arrow are harder to emulate. And if the showrunners are also wanting to put their own spin on things, to the extent that they're allowed, then that can make for a very disorganized, cramped show.

This formulaic approach is not unusual, other shows that are produced by virtually the same team on the same network have the same problem. I used to enjoy watching CSI and NCIS, but when they added all of the chain shows on the same network, it was easy to see the common structure and I lost interest. Supergirl is very predictable. And part of that predictability is because of this formulaic aspect. For example, everyone knew what Nia's transition into a superhero would look like. And we know that the focus will be less on Kara and more on a super friends team because that's what's been done on the other shows. I'm not sure that these problems are the fault of the show-runners if they're being pressured or encouraged to write those types of stories by the main PTB

As far as these particular show runners go, while I did like some of the things Adler brought in Season 1, that season also had its own set of problems. And I thought Season 2, with Schecter in charge, was one of the worse seasons they've had. Again, though, there could be other factors that are in play that we're not aware of.

as mentioned not everything wrong with the show should be put on the showrunners. there are been reports of disagreements in the writers room (with some even exiting) and some episodes really felt like they were written by committee. the original vision of the show was spot on and refreshing, but again as noted the issues of the budget, the move to Vancouver, the cast changes etc all hurt. there is no doubt the show has been hurt by the loss of key characters and the inclusion of unnecessary characters to fill gaps.

maybe the showrunners should listen to their leads about where the show should be, it is after all Melissa and Chyler who hear from the fans the most about what the show means to them (girl empowerment, pro adoption stories, pro inclusion story lines etc).

Short answer......YES!

I seem to be in the minority here as I am really (overall) enjoying this season. To the point that I think, overall, it has been the strongest season. Supergirl is the show I am most excited about week to week but I am well aware of the flaws. I think every season has had good aspects but they struggled to stick the landing. I suppose it is possible this season will also (Season 3 was excellent until the last group of episodes totally crashed and burned.

BUT ... in reading some of the comments here I can definitely see room for improvement. The show is top heavy with too many characters. I suspect that is to take the load off Melissa but I dont actually know that. And some characters (James) have never really worked. Which is a shame because the actor seems like a genuinely good person. And it is a valid criticism that the focus isn't strongly on Supergirl on a week to week basis. And maybe it needs to be.

I think the show would do better with 2-3 long arcs a season instead of one 23 episode overarching villain. Ditto with Flash and Arrow. I think they have done a decent job this season of keeping one threat ongoing (Children of Liberty) while introducing other weekly threats. The show has always struggled to let Supergirl be SUPERGIRL (She was trapped in a clamshell case for gods sake .. and in season one couldn't get out of quicksand) but the other CW shows are no better in this regard.

I don't mind the show being "political" but that is because it's politics mirror mine. I totally understand how, if I felt differently, it would be a turn off. But even with that said, I would be very happy if next season was "politics free" and they simply focused on crafting shows that showcased Supergirl in the best light possible.

So, if new show runners are needed to shake up the status quo I would have no problem with that. But, I think the current showrunners have shown they can craft a pretty good season and if they continued on, I would be staying on to see what they come up with next season.

I seem to be in the minority here as I am really (overall) enjoying this season. To the point that I think, overall, it has been the strongest season.

In some ways, I agree that is it the strongest season. For one, I believe it to be the most cohesive in all of the stories. Besides Season 1, this is probably the first time that almost all of the side-stories are actually relevant to the main story. And most all of the side-characters, including villains and guest characters, are related to driving that main story forward. I have appreciated that improvement in the show and have believed most of the season, that if they could get a strong main story that centered on Kara in a way that wasn't superficial, then it would be a very enjoyable season.

I don't mind the show being "political" but that is because it's politics mirror mine. I totally understand how, if I felt differently, it would be a turn off.

I believe that politics integrated into a show generally shouldn't be a problem. And I agree that probably some viewers are upset with this season because their political views are different. However, I don't believe that it's only those who disagree with the issues that have a problem with it this season. I have grown very weary of the insertion of the politics in this season and on a personal level, I completely advocate on behalf of those issues. I am pretty certain that my problem with its depiction is that the story itself is about the issue rather than the issue being part of the story. I've said it a couple of times that the story just seems to be a complete rip-off of the headlines (or social media commentary) with the characters on the show replacing the players in real life. Personally, I don't wish to be inundated with that much true to life depiction in my fictional television shows. All it seems to be accomplishing - for me at least - is to increase my already high level of frustration with the real life world events - to the point that many times, I almost just want to turn it off.

That, along with the continual lack of Kara-centered stories, original ideas and wonky writing that we have already talked about in depth, is why I feel there needs to be a change of some sort.

I can say with the new writers the political undertones of this season have been far more consistent. That is a plus, and that part of this season Ive enjoyed. My only problem is a problem that has plagued every SH CW show. Too damn many characters to service. Its like they are afraid to have the main hero in more than 10-15 minutes of the 45 minute episode. Who's name is on the freaking Show Title? In just seems like the Showrunners find other characters stories more compelling this season.

I can say with the new writers the political undertones of this season have been far more consistent. That is a plus, and that part of this season Ive enjoyed. My only problem is a problem that has plagued every SH CW show. Too damn many characters to service. Its like they are afraid to have the main hero in more than 10-15 minutes of the 45 minute episode. Who's name is on the freaking Show Title? In just seems like the Showrunners find other characters stories more compelling this season.

I think you have nailed it, Kelly. I don't know where this problem originates, so I am hesitant to fix blame on any person(s). But I absolutely agree that there are too many secondary characters. The writers I am sure feel they need to give these actors something to do, hence there are a slew of unnecessary plot lines that detract from the emphasis on Supergirl, where it belongs. It's a great cast with a lot of interesting characters, but the only secondary ones I see as essential in every episode are Alex, J'onn, and Brainy. All the others could come in and out in a few episodes as needed, or just appear in one scene per episode, supporting SG in some way. But I suspect that contractually they have painted themselves into a corner and may be required to write these characters into more episodes than we the fans find necessary.